Michael Cheek:

[00:00:00] You tell a story, you can pull people in and really relay information in a compelling way that pulls them into the orbit of where you want them to be. Telling people what you've done is not as powerful as telling people what you're gonna do. One of the big things that anyone wants to do when they start a new job is change everything. Don't do that. You have to get to know the vibe of the company. You have to get to know the people with the.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:00:37] Ever see a marketer use blue windmills to tame red and green giants Triple trade show engagement and produce work, so good firefighters get tattoos of it. That's Michael Cheek from flame resistant fabrics to Dragers Breathing Tech. He sells through nostalgia and disrupts the status quo. Listen, in Main Street just became market share.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:00:58] Thanks so much, Michael, for, uh, for joining us on the latest episode of Rethink Change.

Michael Cheek:

[00:01:03] Uh, thank you for having m e,

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:01:03] So for starters, why don't you tell everybody in 60 seconds or so or two minutes a little bit about your background and your career.

Michael Cheek:

[00:01:12] I started my career as a journalist. I thought that's what I wanted to be. I graduated undergrad with a history degree and a minor in journalism. What is journalism? But yesterday's. Events. So that sort of history, and that's what I started with. Uh, and then I actually had my first job at a newspaper and discovered, especially because I was, I was the second string, uh, what we call death and destruction at the time in South Florida. And so at 22 years old, I was going out. And covering murders and accidents. And I also had the unfortunate experience covering some white supremacists. I also covered a, uh, a young lady who was my age who was infected with the AIDS virus by her dentist by accident. Uh, from there I decided I really didn't want to do that 'cause I felt like I was invading people's privacy.

Michael Cheek:

[00:02:08] I thought I wanted to be in public policy journalism. I went to Washington DC to get my grad degree. Started in public policy journalism discovered quickly that I didn't want to deal with the Republicans and the Democrats and all of the sides that everyone was taking. So I went into tech journalism, tried that for a little while, and finally just started transitioning out into marketing.

Michael Cheek:

[00:02:29] First big break, uh, in marketing was at a major flooring company in the United States. Then I transferred to some soft goods in the fire business, and now I'm doing, uh, hardware in the fire business. The one thing that I like to say about my entire career is that it's all been about storytelling. I think that's what the most effective marketing is, is when you tell a story, whether it's a tweet or uh, some sort of social media posts, whether it's p hotograph or an advertisement or whether it's a, a webpage or whatever you're doing. If you tell a story, you can pull people in and really relay information in a compelling way that pulls them into the orbit of where you want them to be. Around potential sales success

Ward Pennebaker:

[00:03:14] Once you started getting into marketing, what did you find in each of those three companies that I know our business has been changing radically over the last 50 years, so I'm sure you walked into these, these new jobs and it was like, wow, we can't keep doing the things t he way we used to .

Michael Cheek:

[00:03:32] Exactly. That's one of the most interesting aspects of my interview, uh, with the flooring company and why I got the job. It was in 2007. Around then Facebook was pretty brand new and this whole social media revolution was happening. And part of what I talked about in my interview and what I, I ended up being the digital marketing director for the company was that. Deciding on flooring isn't a single person's decision. It is a social decision. They work with other people, whether it be members of their family, some sort of designer, their best friend, whoever it is, is not simply a decision that is directly as a result of one person visiting a website and choosing something and buying it. Uh, there's a variety of people being involved in it. Uh, I introduced the company to social media. Uh, I tried to create an environment. Uh, technology was a little more limited at the time with websites, so you couldn't create an environment where people could get on there, but you could share information.

Michael Cheek:

[00:04:37] So we set some things up like that. So sharing would allow people to have a, a full discussion. One of the biggest challenges of flooring, and I've always been in B2B, just FYII should have mentioned that is always B2B. But the interesting thing with every B2B company I've ever worked with, you have a relationship with a consumer, uh, the final purchaser of it.

Michael Cheek:

[00:05:00] And so even though you're the manufacturer, you have that relationship with the consumer. So you have to both work with your channels where you're selling your goods through and work with the end user consumer. And when it comes to flooring, the last thing you think about is brand. Everyone starts when you start thinking about flooring is do I want carpet or hardwood? Do I want this color or that color? Do I want this texture or that texture? And when you get to the end of the process is when you finally discover which brand you've chosen. So. I needed to create a more cohesive digital experience where people started with the brand more. And that's kind of what I tried to do at the company when I was there.

Ward Pennebaker:

[00:05:43] So when you were saying that in the flooring decision, buying decision, that there's a community that gets involved and really what. It sounds like you're saying is that there's a huge emotional factor that you're not being so analytical about the decision, but it's an emotional decision.

Michael Cheek:

[00:06:01] It's totally emotional decision, and it's also interesting, one of the things, the demographics of the flooring. Purchase decision usually, or that when I got there, the thought was that a traditional wife and husband, 80% of the decision was made by the wife, and 20% was made by the man who ultimately had the checkbook or the credit card. Um, and so he was looking for bank for the buck while she was looking for design.

Michael Cheek:

[00:06:29] The interesting aspect on that was the website data didn't support that. The website data showed a 50 50 split down the middle. And when we started addressing some of the issues around it, we wanted to be able to engage both genders in the decision process and make it compelling for them. One of the best examples of difference in genders, and we did some studies of the website and we found that the female head of household would often choose.

Michael Cheek:

[00:07:01] To see furniture in the room while the male head of household didn't want to see any furniture in a room, they just wanted to see the flooring. And so the, those were some of the things that we discovered and spent some time on developing. But ultimately the biggest challenge was getting people engaged with a brand that they didn't think about until the very end of the purchase process.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:07:25] What were some of the wild things that you did?

Michael Cheek:

[00:07:27] We had developed a polymer that you basically, once it was extruded into, uh, carpet fibers was very soft and could not be stained. You could have the deepest color red and poured bleach on it, and it wouldn't change color. You could spill wine and everything. It just was incredibly stain resistant. Uh, it was brand new at the time. It also had some eco elements to it where it was made from corn rather than a petroleum product. The regular creative team at the company had done some really good things like have Martha Stewart. Do a stain on TV and things, but it really wasn't moving the needle.

Michael Cheek:

[00:08:06] I wanted to come up with something wild and in coming up with something wild, I just got to thinking about the word wild and decided we needed to look at wild animals. We actually had an an HGTV star at the time come in and redo habitats. Zoos and put it under a black rhinoceros, elephants and let them live on it for three weeks. And then we went in and cleaned it. We broadcast it live over the web. And this is pretty remarkable at the time. Um, it was quite a challenge at the time. It was around 2008, 2009 when we were doing it, 2009, 2010, I think is when we did it. It was a, a huge , h uge hit

Ward Pennebaker:

[00:08:52] What a great strategy and how successful it was . So when you moved to your next job, you had the background of being disruptive and, uh, what did you find when you got to your next job? So I went to a company

Michael Cheek:

[00:09:07] that's an an ingredient. Again, a B2B relationship because, um, even though the ingredient was fabrics for firefighters and for electricians, et cetera, anyone that needed a flame resistance fabrics, there was a relationship from the standpoint of the choice of fabrics.

Michael Cheek:

[00:09:27] So people may not realize this when you're in these types of industries. You get to specify the fabric that your, uh, garments are made of. And so when a firefighter, a fire department buys turnout gear, they specify which fabric is being used, and they choose down to the amount of fiber, the type of fiber that's in it, the type of flame resistant fiber.

Michael Cheek:

[00:09:50] Interestingly enough, when I got there, they had just launched a campaign using a rhinoceros as the mascot. And they were just using a mascot, thinking of talking about the fabric, being rhino tough. And I'd spent a lot of time with rhinos at my previous job. So one of the things I knew from that job is, uh, and, and this is one of those interesting things, did you know that the rhino is the, actually the world's first firefighter?

Michael Cheek:

[00:10:20] So a rhino is an herbivore, and legend has it and has been in movies. It's been in The Simpsons. It's been all over the place that when a rhino smells its food on fire, it will go over and stomp it out.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:10:34] I've never heard that

Michael Cheek:

[00:10:35] I was like telling people this and they had no idea. So it allowed us to really allow that campaign to blossom a little more, not just be a mascot, but tie it directly to the fire service in a way that was so compelling.

Michael Cheek:

[00:10:50] I've absolutely loving, uh, working with firefighters and understanding their motivations for their purchase decisions,

Ward Pennebaker:

[00:10:59] which led you to your current job with Drager. Precisely. What were you hired to do?

Michael Cheek:

[00:11:07] Um, Drager is probably the world's largest producer of a self-contained breathing apparatus or SCBAs. And that's what firefighters use when they go into a fire. Drager has been around since 1889. Its first breathing apparatus for firefighters came about in 1917, and to give you a little sense of how old that really is, is the first flame resistant fabric. So the first time firefighters wore a flame resistant fabric so that they didn't get burned up was in 1970.

Michael Cheek:

[00:11:46] So you're talking about decades of time had passed between the first breathing apparatus and, and when firefighters finally got flame resistant fabrics. Drager is a very proud company with a deep history in the United States, uh, that that 1917 fire department was a Pittsburgh fire department. It has r oots here for more than a hundred years now, but as a company, because it's the name of the family that founded it, it's still led by the family that founded it. But when it comes to the world today, the two little dots that happen to be above VA and and the name Drager, is a little challenging when you're looking at the firefighter market because there is a perception t hat it's foreign. Even though in today's global economy everyone gets products from all over the place. For so many years, Drager had not really focused on his presence in the United States. Uh, when it came to firefighting, there was a sense that the future of the company would probably be in medical devices and more around oil and gas industry, which are.

Michael Cheek:

[00:12:55] Of course very strong opportunities, but I felt like, and, and the reason they hired me is I felt like fire was a place that was where it was kind of untapped for the company. What were the biggest challenges that you faced going into the role? It's a large company. It's been around for a hundred years, plus it makes decisions slowly. Methodically. It is very thoughtful about it. The fabric company I was at was based in the Netherlands. Um, so this one was based outta Germany. All of us have this issue of myopia from where we live, and we think that where we are is. The best. And so Drager had a bit of myopia around its success in Europe and thinking that just because it was successful in Europe, they get to just translate that over into North America and be successful too.

Michael Cheek:

[00:13:50] And I'm not saying that everyone thought that way, but there's just a a bit of a zeitgeist at the company that was. Felt like the dominance in Europe could be easily translated to the United States. And over the many, many years, it had tried to be dominant. Two other companies had supplanted it in the United States.

Michael Cheek:

[00:14:10] And in fact, at the time when it came to. Self-contained breathing apparatus or ass CBAs. There were six companies that were providing it to the fire service when I first got there. And what I found among the sales team is they weren't even going after the big two that were dominant in the market. They were trying to compete with the the small three.

Michael Cheek:

[00:14:32] So these four were. Trying to do their best to get about 12% of the market rather than going after the big guys.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:14:40] What were the biggest challenges from just a general market perception?

Michael Cheek:

[00:14:45] Because Drager is both medical and safety. There's a very strong desire for all of our marketing to match both of those communities. One of the first things I heard is that presence at trade shows, uh, especially some dominant, dominant trade shows for the fire industry looked more like a hospital room than a fire department. Uh, it was very white. Uh, it was very sleek. It was very modern. As we well know in strategy, telling people what you've done is not as powerful as telling people what you're gonna do. For their needs. So there was a bit of a reliance at the time, marketing wise to talk about how Drager had been there and, and, and had all this great history. To this day, I will be talking with some of our channel partners and they will tell me, you really need to emphasize the history of Grader . History. We, we do have a very rich and, and very deep history, but that's not telling today's millennials who are coming into decision making roles as well as Gen X, who, who do take history into account sometimes, but don't. It's not a main focus of how they make a decision. That emotional decision that everyone makes about choosing a product, what have you done for me lately is more important.

Michael Cheek:

[00:16:06] Yes, exactly. I call that the Ms. Jackson rule after her song.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:16:12] So change can be really uncomfortable for people. You have the mindset, you're one of those unique minds who really leans into it completely. Yes. And the rhinoceros example is one that is a a, a perfect example of doing things that are totally unconventional outside the box. What'd you do for Drager ? Here's a, here's a company that had these very safe, very medical booth. You know, feel for an audience that obviously is, is completely different.

Michael Cheek:

[00:16:39] How do you approach shaking things up? Well, let me first kind of set the stage, 'cause I think it's important to set the stage where, where I started to make the transition for Drager .

Michael Cheek:

[00:16:48] As I said, there were six. Manufacturers of SCBAs that were in the market every five years or so, there's a new standard, and that standard requires that SCBAs pass it in order to sell to American firefighters is very long and detailed process. When the 2018 edition of that standard came out, three manufacturers ended up basically dropping out of the market with the three, which were the big two and D rager, we were suddenly in third place.

Michael Cheek:

[00:17:18] It wasn't a battle among the bottoms of of the market, it was more of what could D rager do to push to the top of the market. Conveniently enough, the main color of one company was red. The main color of another company was green. Drager’s primary color that it used in the market was blue, even though at the time everything was supposed to be white with blue accents according to corporate identity, and I made the first conscious decision to flip the script on that and focus on the color blue. So we would be the blue one compared to the green one and the red one. I needed to establish that I went hard into the blue category with, with its pieces. But the other thing, while we had the history in America talking about the history wasn't going to change the mind of the American firefighter, and so I needed to show we were American Drager.

Michael Cheek:

[00:18:16] Uh, Drager ’ s US Safety business is based outta Houston, Texas. Even though we're a very diverse group of people that came into that environment in Houston, to really build that up, we really needed to play into that Texas flavor to show that we were just as American as the other producers of SCBAs were.

Michael Cheek:

[00:18:37] So I started with a very basic idea, which was creating an environment at the, at the largest firefighter annual firefighter trade show that spoke to Texas, spoke to firefighters, and spoke to D rager. In the state of Texas, there's things called ice houses. Anyone that's been to Texas knows that it gets hot there during the summer. So ice houses are kind of became a thing when you used to have ice delivery to your home. So what would happen is the ice house would receive its ice in the evening. People would gather there before the delivery out the next morning to their homes. And so ice houses became a big thing in Texas.

Michael Cheek:

[00:19:17] Interestingly enough, that's how 7/ 11 got its start. It started as a ice house. So I built an ice house at a trade show. Created a hospitality environment, uh, that was really firefighter focused and American focused, Texas focused and focused on Drager and what Drager has been for the United States.

Michael Cheek:

[00:19:37] I mean, the whole reason why we have s mooth pour of beer is because of Drager . In 1889, the man who founded Drager created a pressure reducing valve that allowed a smooth pour. So Drager has a very strong foundation in beer, and the reason why you get a smooth pour out of a tap is because of Drager That i s the foundation of everything breathing you. You can press air into the big cylinder that's on the back of a firefighter, and you need to reduce that pressure in order for the firefighter to breathe properly. And that's the whole idea behind Drager. And it started with beer, and beer was part of the ice house tradition in Texas. And so it just seemed like a perfect fit.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:20:24] So tell us a little bit more about the ice house. Was it successful? What are the types of things that you did with it? You know, obviously the concepts of an ice house is disruptive, but was it a nice to have? Did it really resonate with the attendees and they entered the hall?

Michael Cheek:

[00:20:36] One of the first things they'd see other than our competitors was this unusual ice house that looked like it was sitting in Texas and we had a front yard. I, I, I'm a someone who loves theme parks. One of the things about theme parks, I call them weenies, and that is the main element that everyone sees and thinks of when they're at a theme park.

Michael Cheek:

[00:21:01] So if you think about any of the Disney magic Kingdom like parks, you're gonna think of the castle. And if you're thinking of Epcot, you're gonna think of the big sphere. I wanted to create a weenie for the booth. Uh, something that was gonna be tall. And kind of call attention to it. So we did a windmill, which is something you see in Texas all the time.

Michael Cheek:

[00:21:21] But again, we're about. Breathing we're about clean air. The windmill was the piece that we kind of put in there to cause people's attention to what we were doing, and we made a rich environment. If you went into the space, it wasn't just very plain. There was a lot of things you could see on the wall. You and you could go around and see the different things.

Michael Cheek:

[00:21:42] We also created a hospitality environment, meaning that we were providing food and drink to people that were visiting with us. We had nachos and soda at the time. We also did some hot sauce, something very Texas that you would see in the space, but in order to get there, you needed a [00:22:00] passport. And that passport was only available at the main booth. And so you, you were actually instructed to go to get a passport from the main booth. And so you needed to engage with our products at the main booth, and then you would get a passport into, uh, our version of, of the ice house, which we call d Drager Town.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:22:18] So how, how successful was it?

Michael Cheek:

[00:22:20] Massively. The first thing that I think people said when they saw our presence at that particular FDIC was that D rager ’ s no longer a small player. Someone actually said to me more than once that D rager's here to play, we drove some of the best engagements that we've ever had and we can actually trace back some. Big wins at fire departments because of that particular presence at at at FDIC.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:22:50] I think one, one of the really interesting things for me is a lot of times trade shows are a total hodgepodge of what a lead is.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:22:58] It's like you give away tacos or t-shirts or put putt contest or whatever, and so you get a. Litany of crap leads that the sales team has to, has to comb through. One of the things that was really interesting about Drager Town is they had to try on a product that they weren't familiar with in order to get a pass to this VIP, you know, D rager Town, ice House, and so.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:23:21] All of the leads that your team got were incredibly qualified as opposed to just t-shirt leads, is that right?

Michael Cheek:

[00:23:26] Yeah, exactly. So let me be even more specific about that. You could get a pass to the booth by just going and trying on R-S-C-B-A. The truth is, is I already had research that showed that about 92% of all firefighters had either active duty firefighters, had either never tried on D rager or hadn't tried on Drager in the past five years.

Michael Cheek:

[00:23:49] All we wanted to do was get the SCBA on on their backs, and so that they would discover that it fit the firefighter better than any other SCBA out there. So certainly anyone that came and engaged with us, engaged with our products would get a, a passport to go to the Drager Town Ice House. But the deeper conversations that we would end up having with firefighters, the ones that were truly qualified and in the market for a product beside getting a special type of passport, those were the only people we scanned.

Michael Cheek:

[00:24:24] Uh, I always have brand ambassadors that. The trade shows, I've always done it in one way or another. And so in the, the particular case that I'm talking about brand ambassadors, I think sometimes everyone thinks that they're pretty girls that stand there and pull people in based on their beauty, not based on their knowledge.

Michael Cheek:

[00:24:45] One of the things that I've been working on in my years at Tata, uh, pardon me, at the Fabric company and then moving into the next. Part of my is finding firefighters who would be brand ambassadors, both male and female, and having them as the people that would engage with the person visiting our booth first and then doing a warm handoff to one of our product specialists or sales team members if the person was actually really interested.

Michael Cheek:

[00:25:15] And so that. Free up those product specialists and you know, the company people normally that would be engaged with people that were just there to get something free. Or, you know, get the quick pass to go to Drager Town, you would free them up to spend more quality time with the leads that really mattered. [00:25:34] M att Pennebaker : So you built a town the next year? Describe your thinking.

Michael Cheek:

[00:25:34] Yeah, so, um, the, the Ice House made another appearance. We, we did do the Ice House, but it was called Drager Town. It was called Drager Town for a reason because there was a town. And so in our kind of magical world of trade shows, we ended up building a main street, uh, at one end was a, uh, gas station.

Michael Cheek:

[00:25:57] 'cause Dreger makes gas detection, uh, mobile gas detection products that determine if the air's safe to breathe or if there's some sort of toxic gases or whether there's a chance that there's vapors building up. For some sort of, uh, explosion, any of those types of things. It's gas detection is used by firefighters on a regular basis as well for hazmat.

Michael Cheek:

[00:26:19] So our gas station was where you could see our gas detection products. And then next to that was a little small barber shop. Um, that was kind of the best way to deal with air purified respirators, which are, are filtered devices that provide protection from particulates in the air and sometimes some certain vapors, but mostly about particulates, so the air that the people breathe is cleaner. Next to that was our, our general store, which. Had a little bit of everything else that Drager had, as well as our communication devices, uh, for our CBAs. And then one of the big things is we have training systems or training galleries. And so we created an art gallery that had art in it, but the art was about our training systems.

Michael Cheek:

[00:27:07] And then we had, of course, the hospitality area with our ice house. And then the main street had was lined with streetlights as, as you would see on most main streets. And from those streetlights, we suspended our SCBAs again for people to try on. So it was a whole kind of experience of going into this little town that had these outlets for all the different types of products that, that we offered, um, but also giving a really distinct space for each and that, that initial engagement on the outside being the SCBA, which is our, our, one of our main focuses of, of what we do at at D rager.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:27:48] Talk about a lift though. I mean, building a town is a monumental lift. How'd you go about. Doing that.

Michael Cheek:

[00:27:54] Yeah, it was definitely monumental if it hadn't have been for a lot of cooperation from our agency, uh, Pennebaker, um, as well as the creative powers there to take what we did in the ice house of first year and extend it into a very 1950s esque town or 1960s sort of moment in time. Along with our exhibit company, that that really helped us build it and make it come to life was remarkable.

Ward Pennebaker:

[00:28:25] With a normal trade show, you might have somebody who might spend. 30 seconds to a minute in the show in Drager Town, what kind of time was spent by these good leads?

Michael Cheek:

[00:28:35] We are finding that people spend 10 minutes or more with us, and when you've got two days, basically 14 hours of time when the show floor is open at this event, for someone to spend 10 minutes with you is remarkable. Our competitors don't come anywhere close to that.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:28:52] Awesome. Very, very successful. So, let me rewind a little bit. How did we meet?

Michael Cheek:

[00:28:55] Very early in my time at Drager? They had an agency. It was okay. They did okay work, and I've worked with agencies for many, many, many years. An agency helped me with the rhino a nd elephants and all living on carpet and, and everything like that. So when that particular relationship was coming to an end, and that company in my opinion, didn't have a lot of creative power behind it, it just didn't, it, it was really difficult to get them to think outside of a box. And I'm someone that lives outside the box. So we came in to an agency search, and I wasn't in charge of the agency search, but, um, they wanted a, a Houston agency, so Pennebaker qualified. Uh, we looked at a variety of small, medium, and large, and narrowed it down to three, one small, one medium, one large. I hope you don't mind me saying that you're the medium one, j ust where we wanna be. Um, yeah, exactly. I think that's one of the best places to work. Large agencies. When Drager wanted to have enough focus on what we were doing is where we really wanted to be is we wanted, we didn't want to be small and insignificant, like at a large agency, because being B2B business, when you do B2B, you're never gonna be the big commercial player , y ou're not gonna be out buying. Tons and tons of advertising, you're not gonna be doing a lot of the things that agencies really like to see. So what we looked for was a group of people that would be able to match the diversity of what we do in safety. The fire service is just one aspect of, of what the safety business does. Do a lot of oil and gas to do a lot of chemical. Uh, they do law enforcement, they do mining. So there's a, a wide variety of safety. And so we needed an agency that was also gonna be flexible. And created. And so we used FDIC as kind of a test case with everyone to see what they would come up with. And myself as well as other people as from part of of the business were part of the decision making process and gave everyone a week, gave them, uh, a creative brief, uh, gave them a little time, and of course, we were available to answer any questions.

Michael Cheek:

[00:31:10] The most interesting thing about that decision making process is we allowed. The organizations to come back to us with questions. The only one that came back to us with, with any questions was pennebaker. The other thing that really set Pennebaker apart and it's little stuff that ultimately makes these decisions.

Michael Cheek:

[00:31:27] You guys went to a firehouse and talked to firefighters. Kind of an obvious point when you're doing something like this, the other competitors in this bin didn't do that, even the small one. And everyone knows there's a firehouse within 20 miles of everyone's home, pretty much, unless you're way out in the middle of nowhere.

Michael Cheek:

[00:31:44] So it's easy for you to go there. Firefighters are used to people stopping by saying Hi. Obviously they've got to go to a fire, they're gonna go to a fire. But, um, people come by all the time. It's really a welcoming environment. It was easy to do. And the other thing. This is one of the weirdest little things, but it really set pen and baker apart, is you guys figured out how to put the MLO over the yay when you punch it into a keyboard. Uh, those two little dots are pivotal to the our global brand and. You told us exactly how you do that both on a Mac, a pc, and an iPhone. And we were impressed that that was a whole part of the conversation of how important those two dots were and what they meant. And we saw examples from the competitors and the, the decision making process where they didn't even bother t o put the two dots over the a, the, I mean, that is someone's name, that is the name of a family. Uh, it is not just the name of a company. It is not something that is disposable. And so having that regard for both the name of the company, but also our founders and, and the people that lead us now, I think made Pennebaker a shoe win.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:33:00] So for the people who don't have experience working with agencies, why would you use an agency to begin with and what constitutes a good one?

Michael Cheek:

[00:33:07] I have some colleagues, even to this day who don't understand what an agency is there to do. Agencies are not a task. They're not an organization that you give a task to that needs to be accomplished. Are there tasks that result out of what you need? Absolutely. A good agency provides you an outside and inside perspective of what you're trying to accomplish. A good agency gets to know you, your business, what you're trying to accomplish, and they look inside the business for what the business is needing.

Michael Cheek:

[00:33:43] But they also look at the market. They also look at the. The people you're trying to attract, and they connect those dots together in a way that sometimes when you're living inside a company and a company is full of its own internal bureaucracies and politics, you sometimes kind of miss the forest for the trees.

Michael Cheek:

[00:34:01] You can. So the most important thing that you can do with an agency is provide them space to do their job and information and be blunt with them about it and be clear with them about it and not withhold stuff. Any agency relationship is, is surrounded with an NDA, so your business secrets aren't leaked and you have to trust your agency and that trust has to be built and ongoing over the time you work together.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:34:30] A company like Drager obviously has internal marketers, internal designers, internal, you know, traditional resources. What specifically are you looking for an agency to do other than obviously help with providing insight into the marketplace and come up with strategic ideas?

Michael Cheek:

[00:34:46] An agency takes your ideas, your concepts, your goals, and turns everything up to an 11. A good agency will, you know, I came up with the idea to do an ice house. I knew basically what an ice house looked like. I'm not a designer going to an agency and saying, okay, so I want to do a nice house. What does that look like? What are the elements that will create this convincing environment? That's just one example of, of what an agency did for this idea, and so what agents a good agency will do is take an idea and make it authentically that idea and e levated at a level that it makes it really apparent what it needs to be. It grounds the job that you need to be able to do, but it also elevates it, and I don't know how to describe that, is both of those things. So again, like we could have built a structure that was a quote unquote ice house, but what made it look like an iso? What made it look American? What made it look like D r a ger? What made it a attractive space for firefighters? That was the agency. Plain and simple. I had a good idea. The agency took it to the next level.

Ward Pennebaker:

[00:36:00] This podcast is all about navigating change and clearly you've told stories about how you've navigated change and some tips. I think it would be helpful for there are those people out there who are facing some of the challenges that you faced and. I'm sure they'd be asking specific questions that you could provide insights into. Here's some things that I would focus on in your jobs to be better. What? What kinds of things would you recommend to somebody in that position?

Michael Cheek:

[00:36:36] One of the big things that anyone wants to do when they start a new job is change everything. Don't do. That you have to get to know a company, you have to get to know the vibe of the company. You have to get to know the people in the company. And what you have to do is over time build a coalition, you have to take small steps.

Michael Cheek:

[00:36:54] So the first thing I did with the, with the brand is find the space in between for what the corporate identity said and what it didn't say. And I started there. Where was there space for me to start creating an environment that was uniquely American for the American division? And I started with that idea.

Michael Cheek:

[00:37:16] It resulted in over time as I got to know the company and the company got to know me. Trust was built, and that trust allowed. More flexibility in the designs that I was doing. I joined the company in 2018. It was 2021 when I did the ice house. I didn't come in and do the ice house first thing. I had to build it up over time and allow the company to get to know what I was doing so it could trust what I was attempting to accomplish. Every year, we need to make sales. Marketing is there to drive sales, and so that's one of the first goals that you come in there and you do, is you start really looking at what are your leads that are coming in, how are they coming in, how are you making sure that those. Are getting the right people, are the right people, responding to them in a way that engages with the potential customer, the prospect, and and then move them into a sales process.

Michael Cheek:

[00:38:11] Those are all things that a good marketing people will do. But the other thing that they're gonna be doing is looking at the long-term play, and that's. Where I think my skillset has always worked really well. It also, when you're working with an agency, 'cause it was shortly after I arrived, when Drager left the other agency and, and engaged with Pennebaker, it gave Pennebaker time to get to know me and the i ndustry we were trying to address through that collaborative working to get to know each other, working to build that trust both internally and externally. Both Pennebaker and Drager have seen their opportunities expand. The biggest thing I will say is you sometimes wanna shock people with really great ideas, but it's always a good idea that a couple other people in the room know what you're doing. Build a coalition of people you work with who build up that trust with you so that when you come to them with one of those radical ideas, they already trust you and they can back you in those rooms.

Ward Pennebaker:

[00:39:16] One of the things a change agent does, and you're clearly a change agent, is stir the pot. But one of the secrets to success is getting alignment around the new ideas. What advice do you have for people who are facing this to get alignment with the people? Like you had to get alignment with the salespeople as to why you're doing what you're doing and the product developers and why you're doing what you're doing and people throughout the organization. How do you do that? How would you recommend people do that?

Michael Cheek:

[00:39:45] I kind of mentioned that at, initially at Drager when I got here, uh, all of our stuff looked very medical, very clean, very sleek. That's just not something that attaches well to the fire service. And so, for example, our sales team, they were ready to jump with me right away. But once you really get into going down a path, one of the things I've discovered is there's some drift. That happens between parties as when you're working together. I think I took being a change agent and the changes that I was doing for granted when some people came along with me for the first step and the second step and the third step, and then kind of forgot that care and feeding that I needed to continue with that group, that people were on my side and so I started working on other things.

Michael Cheek:

[00:40:35] And at some point when you're working with other people, they think the change that you've done so far is enough. You don't need to go any further. And so that coalition that I talked about, I, I probably failed to continue that coalition 'cause I was trying to build trust within other parts of the organization. When you hear this, you'll recognize it. You can explain a vision to someone, you can show them what your vision is, but they still can't see it. So that small steps that I mentioned earlier, taking small steps includes going back to your core coalition and working with them to help them come along to where you're going next. That's the funny thing is that even when people wanna go the direction you're going, they sometimes can't see your vision.

Ward Pennebaker:

[00:41:24] That is really, really helpful. What do you think we should have asked you t hat we didn't?

Michael Cheek:

[00:41:30] We focus a lot on trade shows and, and in fire there is a, you know, this, this tint pole of an event that s ets the stage for the industry, but I think that there's everything in between that event and there's everything leading up to that event, as well as just accomplishing regular business. You have to be a multitasker, I call it varsity level marketing. Great example. Just basically any fire department that makes the decision on anything. The larger the fire department, the longer it takes. When you first engage with a large fire department, there's a wide variety of people that are in that decision making process, and so that process moves rather slowly. And so you're looking at three , f our, five years before they're gonna make a decision. So that first engagement that you had with them at that ice house in 2021, they're only now starting to make the decisions if they were a large fire department. Understanding those things and still driving the daily business of the company is what you have to do as a marketing professional. And so that dual mindset of how can I help sales get t o the numbers they have to reach this year, but how do I make sure in five years that we have the number of sales that we need as well? The other thing that I think sometimes people miss is it's all right to say no to sales. The number of times that sales will come to me and say, I really want to sales sheet, or a brochure or something like that for this. Okay. Why ? I f you're not asking why and you're not getting a clear picture back, don't do it. Don't do it. Uh, you know, sales is a, and, and remember this, the what's in it for me, the with them sales is thinking about how they're going to make money or tomorrow, not how they're gonna make money in five years. That's your job. Your job is to think how you make money in five years. Don't go to sales with your next big idea. Go to sales with what I'm gonna do for you today and tomorrow. Great advice.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:43:41] Well, Michael, I I really appreciate having you on. You are a strategic marketing mind. That is one in a million. It's, it's always a pleasure working with you and I really do appreciate you, you being on podcast and talking about how change impacts your life and your view of view of the world.

Michael Cheek:

[00:43:59] I appreciate that Matt and Ward, um, you both, uh, lead a great organization of superstars. That's one of the great things about when you're looking, one of the other things you look for as an agency is you identify the superstars in the agency and the, and the great thing about Pennebaker is that every person I work with as a superstar.

Matt Pennebaker:

[00:44:18] Thank you. Well, I'll take that compliment. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Rethink Change. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and be sure to follow the show so you don't miss a single episode. If you're a disruptor looking to challenge the status quo and don't know where to start or what to do next, Pennebaker can help find out more at pennerbaker.com.